TLHH DC Project: The Great Eye - Dwarves

[Thranduil]

I would say DWC06 is good, but not for a common. For the common pump spell in the set, I feel like it should be more like the simple stuff like Axe Strike or Their Halls of Stone. We could definitely use the current design for DWC06 for an uncommon event (DWU04 for example), but for common we need a pump that can always be played. Maybe the best solution would be to swap the ideas for DWC06 and DWU04?

The DWC04 Little Axe is great! This is the sort of stuff I mean by culture matters. I'm not even sure you need the "If bearer is a Dwarf..." line.

Also notice about culture tokens and why I'm keen on them in this set: the cards that reference spotting requirements by cultures and not races or keywords in the game at the moment are most often cards that deal with culture tokens.

Thranduil

[simplegarak]

I would say DWC06 is good, but not for a common. For the common pump spell in the set, I feel like it should be more like the simple stuff like Axe Strike or Their Halls of Stone. We could definitely use the current design for DWC06 for an uncommon event (DWU04 for example), but for common we need a pump that can always be played. Maybe the best solution would be to swap the ideas for DWC06 and DWU04?

The DWC04 Little Axe is great! This is the sort of stuff I mean by culture matters. I'm not even sure you need the "If bearer is a Dwarf..." line.

Also notice about culture tokens and why I'm keen on them in this set: the cards that reference spotting requirements by cultures and not races or keywords in the game at the moment are most often cards that deal with culture tokens.

Thranduil

Reworked some cards and just took off the rarities, just listing them as D1, D2, etc.  I mean, rarities are one of those things that are easy to fix, just shuffle cards around.

[simplegarak]

Found it!

I knew I was making Gimli, friend to Legolas in tribute of a card but couldn't remember which one.

Shoulder to Shoulder.

[Thranduil]

I would say that you should be very aware that commons and uncommons and rares all have to 'feel' different. In illustration, there are certain abilities that would only see printed at rare (for example, My Axe is Notched) and some ideas that if not common would just look weird (eg. Gimli, Faithful Companion), and quintessential uncommon designs as well (eg. Fallen Lord, to use only examples). Great design means that you should be able to tell its rarity just by reading its game text. This is why I think it's important to design cards to rarities (which is what I always do now) rather than to design cards and fix rarities afterward (which is what I used to do before, which is a very chaotic method).


Shoulder to Shoulder is a cool idea. What about this then:

DWR01
•Gimli, Friend to Legolas
Companion • Dwarf
Strength: 6
Vitality: 3
Resistance: 6
Damage +1. Alliance: . (You may replace with anywhere on this card).
Maneuver: Exert a companion and add to heal another companion.
Skirmish: Remove a token to make an unwounded companion strength +1.

Not sure about the last ability, but I felt he needed something else, perhaps to do with culture tokens. Though perhaps tokens is a better theme for a different companion.

Thranduil

[Cw0rk]

Just a question about Alliance. Can you replace and make Gimli an Card, or does alliance only works in the gametext?

[Thranduil]

Just a question about Alliance. Can you replace and make Gimli an Card, or does alliance only works in the gametext?

This is up for grabs. I'm not really bothered - we were talking about dual culture cards anyway, so it kind of makes sense that we could combine that with the alliance keyword, but it doesn't have to work like that.

[chompers]

Shoulder to Shoulder is a cool idea. What about this then:

DWR01
•Gimli, Friend to Legolas
Companion • Dwarf
Strength: 6
Vitality: 3
Resistance: 6
Damage +1. Alliance: . (You may replace with anywhere on this card).
Maneuver: Exert a companion and add to heal another companion.
Skirmish: Remove a token to make an unwounded companion strength +1.

Not sure about the last ability, but I felt he needed something else, perhaps to do with culture tokens. Though perhaps tokens is a better theme for a different companion.

Thranduil

I find it odd that the maneuver skill can be used without using Gimli himself. Exert someone else to heal someone else. Are there other examples of companions with skills that exert anyone to heal anyone? It seems that at least one part should link to Gimli. Or am i reading too much into this?

Just a question about Alliance. Can you replace and make Gimli an Card, or does alliance only works in the gametext?

This is up for grabs. I'm not really bothered - we were talking about dual culture cards anyway, so it kind of makes sense that we could combine that with the alliance keyword, but it doesn't have to work like that.

If Gimli himself can become culture it seems useful, but perhaps powerful? Normally one of the challenges of designing a multi-culture deck is balancing the cards that only work with some companions in your deck. Gimli will be able to use all Dwarf cards, and some Elf cards. This opens up deck design. Perhaps if he can change culture, his deploy cost should rise above 2?

There is also a timing issue with Alliance? Can you trigger it anytime? For example, during a skirmish involving Gimli, can i play and events by switching his culture mid-skirmish? If order of events, actions is important, can i switch his culture multiple times?

It is probably easy enough to answer these questions. But with all the possible broken combos that may arise perhaps it is better to leave the culture of the card unchanged.

[Thranduil]

I find it odd that the maneuver skill can be used without using Gimli himself. Exert someone else to heal someone else. Are there other examples of companions with skills that exert anyone to heal anyone? It seems that at least one part should link to Gimli. Or am i reading too much into this?

No you're quite right. It does make a lot more sense for his ability to be "Exert Gimli and add to heal another companion."

If Gimli himself can become culture it seems useful, but perhaps powerful? Normally one of the challenges of designing a multi-culture deck is balancing the cards that only work with some companions in your deck. Gimli will be able to use all Dwarf cards, and some Elf cards. This opens up deck design. Perhaps if he can change culture, his deploy cost should rise above 2?

There is also a timing issue with Alliance? Can you trigger it anytime? For example, during a skirmish involving Gimli, can i play and events by switching his culture mid-skirmish? If order of events, actions is important, can i switch his culture multiple times?

It is probably easy enough to answer these questions. But with all the possible broken combos that may arise perhaps it is better to leave the culture of the card unchanged.

Currently it's any time. The way I see it is: you play a card or use an ability that checks for Gimli's culture. At that time, once the ability or card has been activated but before it has resolved, you choose what culture Gimli will be for that snapshot. He may be a different culture in a later snapshot, even one directly following. But at any one time, he is only 1 culture – in no particular snapshot can he count as both a and companion.

The reason I think it would work this way is because it seems to me that this is also the way it works in game text: when you activate the ability, but before it has resolved, you choose which cultures the culture symbols involved match to.

Now this may be too powerful, but I'm not so sure it is. Certainly, because we have the power which cards we make with an alliance and which we don't, we can fix the power level of alliance cards so that their abilities/attributes/costs are slightly under the power curve to make up for the flexibility.

Hopefully I've made myself clear on what a vision of this version of alliance would be. I'm not saying this is the version we should definitely run with, but that's what it looks like in this case.

Thranduil

[Cw0rk]

I think that Alliance should only involve the symbols in the gametext, unless all the alliance cards have a weaker gametext.

[Thranduil]

I think that Alliance should only involve the symbols in the gametext, unless all the alliance cards have a weaker gametext.

Well given that we have the power to do either, which would you prefer?

[Cw0rk]

Gametext only is what I prefer.

[chompers]

The Alliance keyword would best be used to switch gametext only - not the culture of the card.

The risk of over-powered combinations of cards feels too high to me once you start switching culture (multiple times) during the one phase.

[Thranduil]

Then that's easy! That's what we'll do.

[Thranduil]

Okay, so let's look at this:

DWR01
•Gimli, Friend to Legolas
Companion • Dwarf
Strength: 6
Vitality: 3
Resistance: 6
Damage +1. Alliance: . (You may replace with anywhere in Gimli's game text).
Maneuver: Exert Gimli to heal another companion or reinforce a token.

[chompers]

Okay, so let's look at this:

DWR01
•Gimli, Friend to Legolas
Companion • Dwarf
Strength: 6
Vitality: 3
Resistance: 6
Damage +1. Alliance: . (You may replace with anywhere in Gimli's game text).
Maneuver: Exert Gimli to heal another companion or reinforce a token.

I like it