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Author Topic: Sarah Palin and Conservative America  (Read 6376 times)

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September 04, 2008, 11:54:42 AM
Reply #30

SomeRandomDude

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Re: Sarah Palin and Conservative America
« Reply #30 on: September 04, 2008, 11:54:42 AM »
ah...mercy is for the weak...that kinda thing......

Nope. Its called tough love. Kinda like the difference between a family letting their kid live in the basement till he's 30, as opposed to telling him to get a job and an apartment.

Give a man a fish and you'll feed him a meal. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime. Unless you plan to give him fish for the rest of his life. This we call welfare.

Quote
on: how is she doing with all the critisism going on? Her daughter being pregnant and all?

Kinda ignoring it. Everyone realizes that the media is groping for anything to slam her. Its a low tactic, and both the presidential candidates and the Democratic VP candidate all condemned it. Its probably backfired, outraging tons of people that such an issue would be brought up.
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September 04, 2008, 12:06:18 PM
Reply #31

Gil-Estel

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Re: Sarah Palin and Conservative America
« Reply #31 on: September 04, 2008, 12:06:18 PM »
Than you have a twisted view on welfare. But I'll stop this, for we will never see the end of it.....

..."Elves seldom give unguarded advice, for advice is a dangerous gift, even from the wise to the wise, and all courses may run ill"...

September 04, 2008, 12:11:55 PM
Reply #32

turin08

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Re: Sarah Palin and Conservative America
« Reply #32 on: September 04, 2008, 12:11:55 PM »
ah...mercy is for the weak...that kinda thing......

Nope. Its called tough love.

Sounds like no love to me.

Good Welfare is just a stepping stone not a stick to lean on your whole life.

September 04, 2008, 12:51:09 PM
Reply #33

SomeRandomDude

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Re: Sarah Palin and Conservative America
« Reply #33 on: September 04, 2008, 12:51:09 PM »
Good welfare, yes. American welfare, no.
NB- 4 year veteran of CC/TLHH

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NB: "I dunno, but I'm in ur house eating ur food.""
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September 04, 2008, 05:40:20 PM
Reply #34

turin08

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Re: Sarah Palin and Conservative America
« Reply #34 on: September 04, 2008, 05:40:20 PM »
Then why don't you do good welfare? It's no good saying 'Oh well were not very good at helping each other so we won't'

September 04, 2008, 06:48:11 PM
Reply #35

sickofpalantirs

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Re: Sarah Palin and Conservative America
« Reply #35 on: September 04, 2008, 06:48:11 PM »
well I think anything our government does is doomed to fail...now if we could get churches and such helping the poor with food banks and all, that works...but we don't want to get american government involved in this...

as pro is the opposite of con, so progress is the opposite of congress.
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September 04, 2008, 07:36:54 PM
Reply #36

MR. Lurtzy

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Re: Sarah Palin and Conservative America
« Reply #36 on: September 04, 2008, 07:36:54 PM »
A democrat controlled congress. ;)

September 04, 2008, 07:46:42 PM
Reply #37

SomeRandomDude

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Re: Sarah Palin and Conservative America
« Reply #37 on: September 04, 2008, 07:46:42 PM »
Then why don't you do good welfare? It's no good saying 'Oh well were not very good at helping each other so we won't'

Let me emphasize an important word. WE. WE have the responsibility to serve the people in need. WE have the responsibility to take care of the needy and help them on their feet. WE the people. WE the individuals. We do NOT need a government to "tax the heck out of everyone" in order to make sure everyone's equal. Socialism is idealist, but its also a breeding pool for laziness and a crashed economy. To quote: "Communism can only work in heaven where they don't need it, or in #$&*@! where they already have it." Same with socialism.

If you're going to give someone something for free, why work? Why not sit on welfare? I mean, you're getting a government paycheck anyways. So why not? Socialism assumes that everyone will work.

And it breaks down to the fundamental question. Is man inherently good, or evil? If man is evil, then socialism will not work. If man is good, then it works. The facts are staring you in the face. People are not inherently industrious. People tend towards laziness. Thus, socialism = collapsed economy.

Now, we must help those who are honestly out of work and want a job. Those people we can give money too. But American Welfare doesn't do this.

Let's go back a century or two. No welfare. If you needed stuff, guys at your church pulled up and unloaded groceries for you. Charities still help the homeless and stuff like that. THAT is what America needs, an opportunity for Americans to give. Because even though Man tends towards evil, he still enjoys good (BTW, Republicans give more to charities than Democrats on average, interesting tidbit).

So...what's this come down to? Yes, people should give each other a hand to help out. This does not mean socialism. This does not require government involvement.
NB- 4 year veteran of CC/TLHH

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NB: "I dunno, but I'm in ur house eating ur food.""
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September 04, 2008, 07:50:13 PM
Reply #38

MR. Lurtzy

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Re: Sarah Palin and Conservative America
« Reply #38 on: September 04, 2008, 07:50:13 PM »
 =D> NB has summed this up nicely. =D>

September 05, 2008, 12:42:25 AM
Reply #39

Gil-Estel

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Re: Sarah Palin and Conservative America
« Reply #39 on: September 05, 2008, 12:42:25 AM »
Like I said we will never see the end of it. So let's stay ontopic.....
..."Elves seldom give unguarded advice, for advice is a dangerous gift, even from the wise to the wise, and all courses may run ill"...

September 05, 2008, 06:55:45 AM
Reply #40

SomeRandomDude

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Re: Sarah Palin and Conservative America
« Reply #40 on: September 05, 2008, 06:55:45 AM »
I don't think I ever addressed the accusation of Palin being a 44 year old beauty queen with no experience. She has more executive experience than Obama. She is governor, and did one heck of a job at it too. Her approval ratings went through the roof! Like, higher than any other governor in the nation! She knows energy policy like the back of her hand, and with McCain being as tough as he is on foreign policy, the most logical choices for him were those solid on domestic policy, and probably a former governor. I was honestly expecting a McCain/Huckabee ticket (everyone knows that picking Liberman would be political suicide), but Palin is just as good. Yes, so he picked her in part because she's a woman. But look what the Obama camp is doing. "VOTE OBAMA HE'S BLACK MAKE HISTORY! (and let's HOPE he does something!)" Meeting it with his own history maker was a very smart political move, but I disagree that he did it at the expense of experience. When a governor has an 80%+ approval rating, there's a sign that something's going right in that state.
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NB: "I dunno, but I'm in ur house eating ur food.""
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September 05, 2008, 11:35:43 AM
Reply #41

sickofpalantirs

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Re: Sarah Palin and Conservative America
« Reply #41 on: September 05, 2008, 11:35:43 AM »
yeah its funny I mean people I like SHE HAS NO EXPERIENCE....well obama spent his one term in congress basically trying to get elected president, he has not authored a single stinking piece of legislation...And what stinks is you cannot criticize him for anything because he's black...and yet they'll criticize palin and we won't be able to call them sexist...

mr lurtzy: no the republican controlled congress was just as bad... well not just as bad...but close ;)
Felipe Musco:
(after all, it's a CHARITY organization, I still have SOME principles, even having gone through Law School... :P),
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September 05, 2008, 11:50:50 AM
Reply #42

SomeRandomDude

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Re: Sarah Palin and Conservative America
« Reply #42 on: September 05, 2008, 11:50:50 AM »
yeah its funny I mean people I like SHE HAS NO EXPERIENCE....well obama spent his one term in congress basically trying to get elected president, he has not authored a single stinking piece of legislation...And what stinks is you cannot criticize him for anything because he's black...and yet they'll criticize palin and we won't be able to call them sexist...

mr lurtzy: no the republican controlled congress was just as bad... well not just as bad...but close ;)

Um...yeah we can call them sexist. That's what they're being. Telling her she should stay at home and take care of her kids?
NB- 4 year veteran of CC/TLHH

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Kralik: "What hath God wrought"
NB: "I dunno, but I'm in ur house eating ur food.""
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September 05, 2008, 01:36:25 PM
Reply #43

HawkeyeSPF

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Re: Sarah Palin and Conservative America
« Reply #43 on: September 05, 2008, 01:36:25 PM »
You know what? I had a big long post about this, but I'm done. I'm sick of the lies, I'm sick of the fear-mongering, I'm sick of being told "get used to it, it's the way it is" - what the * ever happened to the American dream, where anything is possible? What the * ever happened to separation of church and state ("We invaded Iraq because it was God's plan")? What ever happened to the family values that Republicans and conservatives claim to cherish (McCain slapping the future-husband of Palin's daughter on the back as if to say "Way to go, knocking up your UNDERAGE GIRLFRIEND!" What if the roles were reversed, and Obama's proverbial 17-year old daughter was pregnant by her boyfriend? He'd be out of the race in a hurry, that's what.) Why is it ok?

This is just ridiculous. How does McCain's tax proposal propose to help the middle class when it doesn't actually cut their taxes? What about Palin's plan for Alaska - trickle down economics??? I thought that went out in the 80's when it was discovered that IT DOESN'T WORK!

And about the subject of HOPE. Here's how I see it: you can either have hope or despair. When you attack the idea of hope, you reinforce that McCain and his cronies are only selling despair. So I ask you, what is wrong with hope? What is wrong with seeing that there is a problem, finding a way to fix it, and *ing fixing it? Obama inspires, while McCain instills fear - there's a big difference in ideology there. Don't take that to mean that Obama doesn't take the threats that face this country seriously, he's just not going to blindly attack without reason or cause, then occupy for years and years without need.

Energy: fund alternative energy development, since oil is now not only rare, but also in greater demand than ever before due to the industrialization of China and India. If you reduce our dependence on oil (altogether, not just foreign), then you reduce global demand. If you reduce global demand, you reduce price, or at least keep it at the same level as demand continues to grow internationally. If other countries adopt alternative energy sources, then global demand is lowered that much more. This problem is the easiest to solve, and it doesn't even involve drilling, not even in ANWR!
Terrorists: Seek them out and eliminate them. We have the greatest military in the world, and yet we cannot follow a man into a cave. Also pretty simple to solve.
Education: focus on student needs, not end results - instead of a war on drugs and illiteracy, we have a war for oil. NCLB has to go, now. Education is the key to life and success. Find me a profession that is as necessary as educators, but as badly paid for their efforts - I dare you. Not gonna happen, and once again, our focus needs to change. Support your educators and you support your children, your country, and your future. Not difficult - seeing a trend?

Gah, whatever, I'm just REALLY glad some of you can't vote, you scare me.

Oh, one more thing. Some of you have this notion in your heads that if we support welfare and healthcare, that suddenly we'll be socialist and things will be awful and the lazy people who currently work will just quit their jobs and live at home off of welfare. You people are nuts. Have you ever been suddenly unemployed and tried to keep up the same standard of living - having to support two or more people on the minimum wage income of just one? It's just not possible. Sure, everybody wants easy money (where do you think "work smarter, not harder" came from?), but people aren't going to abuse the system because it works better. If it works better, then those who shouldn't be on welfare will be prevented from being on welfare - pretty simple, again. Look at the facts, think about it, and see that this is just another topic where government officials who make entirely too much money have been trying to scare you into letting them keep their jobs or get promoted into higher paying jobs. You fully admit that there are some people out there who genuinely need welfare, or who should have healthcare coverage for their families but can't afford it - why should they continue to not have the same opportunities as those of us who have jobs and healthcare?

Do you regularly spit on bums? Do you think they're evil horrible people because they don't have jobs and they're just abusing the system? Do you really think they ENJOY the way they have to live? Man is not evil on the whole, my friends. As with everything, there are parts (of the population) that have no ethics and truly are evil. Even those people pale, though, in comparison to indifference. Seeing inequities and doing nothing about them - not even CARING - is the true evil this world faces.

Ok, so it turned out long anyway, sue me.

September 05, 2008, 01:44:13 PM
Reply #44

Pepin The Breve

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Re: Sarah Palin and Conservative America
« Reply #44 on: September 05, 2008, 01:44:13 PM »
   Just a little tought: Man aren´t "good" or "evil" it simples evolves strategies during times to get better adapted to enviroment (like all life forms do). So you can call that selfishnes or even evilness but stay in mind that this is in decurrence of evolutionary process and evolutionry processes are very dinamic thus can change within time... If the socirty tends to roll to a way in that "evil" isn´t a adaptative strategy, then human beings will tend not to be evil.

   I think NBarden definition of capitalism and socialism, althought have certain true, are to reductionist (not in the cientific definition) because don´t take many aspects in count, like historical facts and even actual facts...

   Well, just my opinion. I have not much to say about US elections altought i know that have a good influence in global dinamycs...

   But it´s very good to see that this kind of debating are happening around here and that people are expressing their toughts and fellings...