Post your Gemp-LotR bugs here

[Eukalyptus]

Morgul Squealer automatically selects his 2nd ability once 6 comps are out and doesn't let me choose which I want.

Site 4: http://www.gempukku.com/gemp-lotr/game.html?replayId=Eukalyptus$topp4o8xewwywoi3

[Alkarin]

in this game, in regroup phase, site 7.

http://www.gempukku.com/gemp-lotr/game.html?replayId=Kainbr$0jkfgiwrtk02k6aj

Played two sting of shelob.
my opponent can choose the same companion to put in dead pile and put in hand.

[ramolnar]

Morgul Squealer automatically selects his 2nd ability once 6 comps are out and doesn't let me choose which I want.

Site 4: http://www.gempukku.com/gemp-lotr/game.html?replayId=Eukalyptus$topp4o8xewwywoi3

The only Wraith minion in your discard pile was Cantea, who was already in play. The only option you could use was to play from deck. The game was correct here.

[amarga76]

11s160 (war now calls us) card is buged. it supposed to give u +3 strength and (+1 damage if resistance 5+) but if you lose resistance less than 5 in the skirmish it doesnt give you the +3 strength.http://www.gempukku.com/gemp-lotr/game.html?replayId=amarga76$clbgyjcfi91j2p1q  this is the replay link to see for yourself. 

[Merrick_H]

11s160 (war now calls us) card is buged. it supposed to give u +3 strength and (+1 damage if resistance 5+) but if you lose resistance less than 5 in the skirmish it doesnt give you the +3 strength.http://www.gempukku.com/gemp-lotr/game.html?replayId=amarga76$clbgyjcfi91j2p1q  this is the replay link to see for yourself. 

This is not a bug.  Everything was working as intended.

He had 2 Uruk Desecrators out on the table. You had to pay the cost (exert the companion) before you perform the effect.

At the point that you exert the companion, his resistance goes from 6 to 2 because of the 2x Uruk Desecrator.

He was 15 prior to the exertion (5 base, +2 Spear, +1 Gandalf in Region 2, +3 G for Grand (resistance 6), +4 Rally Cry (2 wounds on the troll)) = 15

The exertion drops him to 2 resistance turning off G for Grand, making him 12 and War Now Calls Us puts him back at 15

Working as intended/designed. :-)

[Merrick_H]

http://www.gempukku.com/gemp-lotr/game.html?replayId=bigredmf$2nb55uxy0xygn34r

As can be seen in the description of the card on the WIKI page, the twilight cost of Force of Harad is listed (and plays as 3) when the card states that it is 4 twilight.

[BigRedMF]

http://www.gempukku.com/gemp-lotr/game.html?replayId=bigredmf$7ib4kevi01xqtokg

Above is a replay where you can see a bug with the site Neekerbreeker's Bog 11S249
Merry had resistance 5 when moving there, and healed due to the "When the fellowship moves to here.." game text. Because Merry also was bearing the condition Lingering Shadow 12U166, he then added a burden. Then Neekerbreeker's Bog exerted him because his resistance was less than 5. At that point the site's game text had already been applied once and shouldn't have exerted Merry.

[Merrick_H]

http://www.gempukku.com/gemp-lotr/game.html?replayId=bigredmf$7ib4kevi01xqtokg

Above is a replay where you can see a bug with the site Neekerbreeker's Bog 11S249
Merry had resistance 5 when moving there, and healed due to the "When the fellowship moves to here.." game text. Because Merry also was bearing the condition Lingering Shadow 12U166, he then added a burden. Then Neekerbreeker's Bog exerted him because his resistance was less than 5. At that point the site's game text had already been applied once and shouldn't have exerted Merry.

This appears to resolve correctly as the statements on Neekerbreeker's Bog are evaluated sequentially in the order they are printed on the card.

[BigRedMF]

I disagree. The card does not say "heal each character and THEN exert each character". All healing and exerting should happen at the same time, "when the fellowship moves to here". The order to be concerned about is the order you apply the game text to each character (even though they should all happen at once). Frodo has 5 or more resistance, heal him. Theoden has less than 5 resistance, exert him. Merry has 5 or more resistance, heal him. Respond by adding a burden, but MOVE ON to the next character. You don't go back and apply the text a second time to anybody just because their resistance changed. Merry was a resistance 5 when he moved and the required response was to heal him. After that he didn't move to Neekerbreeker's Bog a second time, he was already there, so the game text can't apply again.

[Merrick_H]

I disagree. The card does not say "heal each character and THEN exert each character". All healing and exerting should happen at the same time, "when the fellowship moves to here". The order to be concerned about is the order you apply the game text to each character (even though they should all happen at once). Frodo has 5 or more resistance, heal him. Theoden has less than 5 resistance, exert him. Merry has 5 or more resistance, heal him. Respond by adding a burden, but MOVE ON to the next character. You don't go back and apply the text a second time to anybody just because their resistance changed. Merry was a resistance 5 when he moved and the required response was to heal him. After that he didn't move to Neekerbreeker's Bog a second time, he was already there, so the game text can't apply again.

  Word problems in English are evaluated one statement at a time and order is relevant.  Neekerbreeker's Bog is essentially a "do X, then do Y" function.  Because the sentence is written "When the fellowship moves to here, heal each character who has resistance 5 or more and exert each other character" you take a snapshot of the game and perform the healing on all companions first including any responses (Lingering Shadow) and then take a second snapshot of the game to determine who to exert.  Since Merry's resistance changes between the two snapshots, he is affected by both statements of Neekerbreeker's Bog as they are evaluated sequentially.

[BigRedMF]

I understand why you interpret it that way, but that does not follow logic. The text triggers once, just like an event. You are taking a snapshot of the fellowship "when the fellowship moves to here" and reacting to that snapshot. What you are saying would be equivalent to me playing Sworn Companion, using Merry with resistance 7 as a plus 1pump, then using the response text of Simple Living to heal Merry, add a burden, reduce his resistance, and then lose the plus 1 pump. You can't take 2 snapshots to evaluate a single response action, which is what Neekerbreeker's Bog is, BECAUSE there is an "and" in it.

[Merrick_H]

I understand why you interpret it that way, but that does not follow logic. The text triggers once, just like an event. You are taking a snapshot of the fellowship "when the fellowship moves to here" and reacting to that snapshot. What you are saying would be equivalent to me playing Sworn Companion, using Merry with resistance 7 as a plus 1pump, then using the response text of Simple Living to heal Merry, add a burden, reduce his resistance, and then lose the plus 1 pump. You can't take 2 snapshots to evaluate a single response action, which is what Neekerbreeker's Bog is, BECAUSE there is an "and" in it.

The text is triggering only once.  It triggers when you "move to".  The AND causes it to be a serial action which sets up two different evaluations.  The situation you describe with Sworn Companion and Simple Living/Lingering Shadow is exactly how it should work in the game.  If you have something that modifies resistance prior to the game text of the card being evaluated, it would only trigger once after all responses to playing the card and mandatory actions are dealt with.  Merry would be excluded from the count as at the time of evaluation, his resistance would be < 7.  Read the "Playing a Card" entry in the last CRD for more information:

http://lotrtcgwiki.com/wiki/_media/crd_2007_0813.pdf

[BigRedMF]

Thanks for the clarification on my bad example. What I was really trying to emphasize was that you only evaluate the text one time.

I can't find anywhere in the rules where the word "AND" means you do one action first. In the English language, AND is not serial, it is parallel. As far as I'm concerned, any LOTR cards that use AND are saying two things happen at the same time, such as "Make a companion strength +2 AND damage +1." There are other cards that use "THEN" to indicate that you do two actions in series (such as Durability 12C4). If there weren't any cards that used the word "THEN" I would probably be inclined to agree with you. But there are cards that use "THEN" and this is not one of them.

From a different form of evaluation, if you are taking the snapshot when the fellowship moves, and Merry has 5 resistance, then he is a member of the group "each character who has resistance 5 or more" and therefore not "each other character" (they are mutually exclusive). If you apply the text in a serial manner, you heal each character who has resistance 5 or more; then when you apply the second part of the text, you are only considering "each other character" that you haven't already healed. So it still shouldn't matter if Merry's resistance was changed because he was already part of the first group of characters.

Without any references in the rules, I think we are just going to be arguing personal interpretations.

[Merrick_H]

I would recommend that you look at the rules section on "Modifiers" and "Resistance".

http://lotrtcgwiki.com/wiki/_media/comprehensive.pdf

If something changes a value all existing modifiers are reapplied.  In this case because Merry's resistance changes as a result of the move his resistance is re-checked when the second half of the Neekerbreeker's Bog game text is applied.  There are two statements in Neekerbreeker's Bog that have to be evaluated separately because they are two separate checks and they must be evaluated in the order that they are written on the card:

Check 1:
If resistance >=5, Heal (Perform the healing first, and perform any responses to the healing)

Check 2:
If resistance <5, Exert

Since Merry's resistance dropped below the threshold after he healed, modifiers are re-applied and he becomes a target in the second check

[Kralik]

Just a quick comment here since I was asked:

The difficulty as I see it stems from some ambiguity of the English language. The conjunction "and" can mean "then" but it can also mean "at the same time" or "also." As it stands I'm sure Gemp is evaluating the statements in order of appearance on the card, but if it was determined that the "and" means "at the same time," the site would have to be programmed to do something like:

Code: [Select]

for (each companion)
  if res >= 5 then
    heal
  elseif res < 5 then
    exert
Versus what is is currently doing, which is something like:

Code: [Select]

for (each companion)
  if res >= 5 then
    heal

for (each companion)
  if res < 5 then
    exert
I think it makes sense that a snapshot of resistances is taken when the fellowship "moves to" the site and then the healing/exertion is applied to each according. However... you could really argue it either way.