More Virtual Cards (Cruel Caradhras, take II)

[Anvar]

Now for some new cards:
• Saruman, Keeper of Isengard (V)
Minion • Wizard
Str: 8
Vit: 4
Sit: 4
Saruman may not take wounds during the archery phase and may not be assigned to a skirmish.
When you play Saruman, you may play an condition from your discard pile.
Regroup: Spot another minion to return Saruman to your hand.
3 V 68

I respectfully disagree with Lem0n here. This card looks brilliant to me. For 4 twilight, you get a condition back and you will always be able to spot/exert saruman. I can think of several decks that would love this card, especially a Weather deck. Having said that, I think that the regroup ability should spot an Uruk-Hai - make it useful with culture, and fits in with old school cards.

And here is also another funky trick which you can use Saruman for:

Saruman's Power (V)
Event • Shadow
Spell.
Spot Saruman (or exert an minion) to take into hand an event or condition from your draw deck.
1 V 136

Another really great card for a weather deck. The cost of is obviously a bit high but then shadow cultures rarely get such good tutoring.

Saruman's Reach (V)
Condition • Support Area
To play, spot Saruman (or 3 , or minions).
Saruman may be spotted.
Response: If your Shadow card is about to exert Saruman as a cost, discard this condition to pay that cost instead.
1 V 137

Apart from the rather bizarre spotting requirements (why not culture? why not 3 minions?) I'm not really sure what to say about this card. Perhaps with Keeper of Isengard in the set, this isn't really necessary - and No Ordinary Storm (v) fetches Saruman as well. This card seems a bit like overkill. To be honest, I think I would prefer it if Saruman's Reach was an anti-posession/condition card, capturing the spirit of the picture, in which Saruman uses his power to steal Gandalf's staff. Also, shouldn't it be a spell?

[lem0nhead]

I respectfully disagree with Lem0n here. This card looks brilliant to me. For 4 twilight, you get a condition back and you will always be able to spot/exert saruman. I can think of several decks that would love this card, especially a Weather deck. Having said that, I think that the regroup ability should spot an Uruk-Hai - make it useful with culture, and fits in with old school cards.

Interesting. I still disagree but interesting.... Instead of using this guy to "spot/exert saruman" how about playing another version for the same cost that does shed loads more? And weather decks are crap so thats rendered pointless, so can you actually point out the decks this guy is useful in, that i wouldnt use servant of the eye or keeper of isengard or agent of the dark lord? Cos i cant see its use at all. Im genuinely interested to see what you would use him for....

[Thranduil]

Having said that, I think that the regroup ability should spot an Uruk-Hai - make it useful with culture, and fits in with old school cards.

Actually, you'll see that there are ways to make this card work in an deck as well. :hey:

Apart from the rather bizarre spotting requirements (why not culture? why not 3 minions?)

Ah yes, I forgot about culture.... The reason it's those cultures is because Saruman appears in each of them.

I'm not really sure what to say about this card. Perhaps with Keeper of Isengard in the set, this isn't really necessary - and No Ordinary Storm (v) fetches Saruman as well. This card seems a bit like overkill. To be honest, I think I would prefer it if Saruman's Reach was an anti-posession/condition card, capturing the spirit of the picture, in which Saruman uses his power to steal Gandalf's staff. Also, shouldn't it be a spell?

No Ordinary Storm (V) only works for a weather strategy (though to be honest I don't really know what I'm doing with weather cards at the moment!) so I'm not sure how much overkill it actually is. Once I've posted lots more cards, I'll probably come back to this one.

Thranduil

[DáinIronfoot]

No Ordinary Storm (V)
Event • Shadow
Weather.
Choose one: reveal 2 weather cards from hand to play Saruman from your draw deck or discard pile; or discard X weather cards from hand and exert Saruman to exert X companions.
"'This is the work of Saruman!'"
1 V 130

Don't remember this one. Nifty!

Can you protect me from yourself? (V)
Event • Assignment
Spot an minion and a companion to prevent that companion being assigned to a skirmish until the regroup phase. The Free Peoples player may exert that companion to prevent this.
"'Where is the Ring?'"
3 V 50

Jeez, did you brother win EVERY round of that contest? Needs some capitalization in the title, my friend.

• Saruman, Servant of the Eye (V)
Minion • Wizard
Str: 8
Vit: 4
Sit: 4
Saruman may not take wounds during the archery phase and may not be assigned to a skirmish.
Uruk-hai are strength +1 for each site you control (limit +3).
Each time an Uruk-hai wins a skirmish you may heal Saruman.
Skirmish: Exert Saruman twice to take control of a site.
"Hunt them down. Do not stop until they are found. You do not know pain, you do not know fear. You will taste man-flesh."
3 V 69

I still say this one is OP, especially without cultural enforcement on those Uruks, but apparently I was in the minority on this one.

• Saruman, Keeper of Isengard (V)
Minion • Wizard
Str: 8
Vit: 4
Sit: 4
Saruman may not take wounds during the archery phase and may not be assigned to a skirmish.
When you play Saruman, you may play an condition from your discard pile.
Regroup: Spot another minion to return Saruman to your hand.
3 V 68

I'd discard that other minion, personally. A little TOO easy to grab him (and essetially an condition as well) as written now.

Saruman's Power (V)
Event • Shadow
Spell.
Spot Saruman (or exert an minion) to take into hand an event or condition from your draw deck.
1 V 136

Hmmm...I'd prefer it be "Exert Saruman (or 2 other minions)....".

Saruman's Reach (V)
Condition • Support Area
To play, spot Saruman (or 3 , or minions).
Saruman may be spotted.
Response: If your Shadow card is about to exert Saruman as a cost, discard this condition to pay that cost instead.
1 V 137

Cool! I like this one a lot.

[Thranduil]

Sticking with the Saruman theme, I told you that Keeper of Isengard (V) could be used in decks. Well, here is the key!

Saruman's Ambition (V)
Condition • Support Area
To play, exert Saruman.
While you can spot Saruman, each , and minion gains the culture (unless that minion has a culture keyword).
At the start of the regroup phase, exert Saruman or discard this condition.
"'I did not expect you to show wisdom, even in your own behalf; but I gave you the chance of aiding me willingly, and so saving yourself much trouble and pain.'"
1 V 133

• The Palantír of Orthanc (V)
Artifact • Support Area
Palantír.
To play, spot 3 minions (or Saruman).
Response: If a companion is played, spot another card and place this artifact on top of your draw deck to return that companion to its owner's hand.
Each time a Free Peoples possession or artifact is played, you may spot an card and reveal this card from your hand to add (and exert a companion if that card was a palantír or ring).
"'Seven stars and seven stones…'"
1 V 67

[DáinIronfoot]

Saruman's Ambition (V)
Condition • Support Area
To play, exert Saruman.
While you can spot Saruman, each minion gains the culture.
At the start of the regroup phase, exert Saruman or discard this condition.
"'I did not expect you to show wisdom, even in your own behalf; but I gave you the chance of aiding me willingly, and so saving yourself much trouble and pain.'"
1 V 133

No no no no NO. I can see making each minion into an one, but making ANY minion in the game an one? Bad, VERY bad. Imagine the potential of having ANY Man minion be an Man? Or turning, say, The Balrog into an minion and then using the original Servant of the Eye to assign Ol' Balgy to whoever you wish? Or the new importance this would give Uruk Spy in a swarm or Uruk Scout with Site 6+ minions or the NEW swarm potential for ANY Orc culture with Isengard Axe? Imagine the absurdity of bringing back old-school Wargs with new-school Orcs! Banner of Isengard and Sack of the Shire with Dunlendings! Get the picture?

Limit it to or don't do it at all. This is badly, badly broken as is. Sorry to be so harsh, my friend, but you're breaking, like, a Top 3 rule of good DC design here.

• The Palantír of Orthanc (V)
Artifact • Support Area
Palantír.
To play, spot 3 minions (or Saruman).
Response: If a companion is played, spot another card and place this artifact on top of your draw deck to return that companion to its owner's hand.
Each time a Free Peoples possession or artifact is played, you may spot an card and reveal this card from your hand to add (and exert a companion if that card was a palantír or ring).
"'Seven stars and seven stones…'"
1 V 67

No complaints here. Powerful for sure, but any good palantír should be.

[DáinIronfoot]

Saruman's Ambition (V)
Condition • Support Area
To play, exert Saruman.
While you can spot Saruman, each , and minion gains the culture (unless that minion has a culture keyword).
At the start of the regroup phase, exert Saruman or discard this condition.
"'I did not expect you to show wisdom, even in your own behalf; but I gave you the chance of aiding me willingly, and so saving yourself much trouble and pain.'"
1 V 133

Sorry man, but still not a fan. I can MAYBE see , but ? That thought really scares me. Isengard Axe? Hollowing of Isengard? Master of Foul Folk? Wolf-voices?

I dunno. It's better now, certainly, but I am NOT a fan of merging and like that. Maybe if you CHANGED their culture instead of simply GAINING it. That might work nicely.

[Thranduil]

Okay, I've removed , , , and minions from the equation which is sensible because it doesn't make a huge amount of sense for those to be influenced by Saruman. But, I definitely think that , and minions should all benefit (the parentheses exempt all Virtual minions with dual cultures (so a minion might have the culture keyword), of which there will be quite a few). And given that it's so restrictive on Saruman, I think it should be alright, though it may mean that Saruman's Reach (V) shouldn't do what it currently does.

(One point, by the way, is that Orcs can't bear the Wargs because they require bearer to be a Warg-rider).

EDIT: Gargh! You posted before I'd even finished commenting! Though I like the idea of making them lose their original culture, though that might get a bit messy sometimes.

Thranduil

[DáinIronfoot]

EDIT: Gargh! You posted before I'd even finished commenting! Though I like the idea of making them lose their original culture, though that might get a bit messy sometimes.

Messy, but perhaps less messy than giving and minions two cultures like that.

This MIGHT just be me. Wait and see what lem0n and others think...though I would be prepared to hear more of the same. I'll be a bit surprised if they don't agree with me, but if they don't, I'll stop griping. Promise.

I ain't a perfect DCer by any means, and this MAY all be my crazy old-school ways talking. But I have spent lots of time trying to think of ways to merge old and new Shadow cultures, and already taken plenty of grief for ways I've tried to do it in the past. Just passing that joy on to you, I guess.

[Anvar]

Ypur Saruman's Ambition is creative, looks like lots of fun, and would lead to all sorts of decks being possible that weren't possible before.

Does it also lead to broken combos? Possibly. It works very well with your Keeper of Isengard, though the requirement for always having Saruman around might be enough to prevent too broken combos. In the end though, I'm not sure if we can see just by looking at it that it's broken. Only playtesting would really reveal it...

[Thranduil]

Ypur Saruman's Ambition is creative, looks like lots of fun, and would lead to all sorts of decks being possible that weren't possible before.

Does it also lead to broken combos? Possibly. It works very well with your Keeper of Isengard, though the requirement for always having Saruman around might be enough to prevent too broken combos. In the end though, I'm not sure if we can see just by looking at it that it's broken. Only playtesting would really reveal it...

One might say that my Saruman's Ambition is quite ambitious!

I designed it specifically to open up those deck-building possibilities, but if there's just 1 or two cards which make this broken, they could always be added to an updated X-list.

Obviously if there are lots of broken combos, that's a call for scrapping the card!

Thranduil

[Elf_Lvr]

Both look okay. Very creative, Thran.

[Thranduil]

Before we get onto some nice juicy (and don't forget brutal) Uruk-hai, let's just see some more exploration of the themes explored in the Palantír. Some of them have the symbol in their game text. This means that they can be spotted as minions as well as .

• Orthanc Berserker (V)
Minion • Uruk-hai
Str: 11
Vit: 3
Sit: 5
Damage +1.
Orthanc Beserker is strength +1 for each wound on each character in his skirmish.
Each time a companion is played, you may spot an card and reveal Orthanc Beserker from your hand to exert that companion.
3 V 66

Uruk Raider (V)
Minion • Uruk-hai
Str: 7
Vit: 1
Sit: 5
. Damage +1.
Each time an Uruk-hai wins a skirmish, you may reveal this minion from your hand and remove to heal an Uruk-hai or exert a companion.
3 V 74

Uruk Ravager (V)
Minion • Uruk-hai
Str: 11
Vit: 3
Sit: 5
. Damage +1.
Regroup: Exert or discard this minion to return an Uruk-hai to your hand.
"'… a ruined and terrible form of life.'"
3 V 75

[lem0nhead]

Well can you guess what im gonna say Thran? LOL. My point will be summarised by this: Just cos you can do it doesnt mean you should. Of course it opens up new deck ideas, these are DC's you can change any card and do anything you want but if you want reviews based on LOTR TCG you have to say in the realms of what the game is about and giving a load of cultures that arent isengard cultures the white hand symbol is not only unrealistic but also just too strange. There has to be a line drawn somewhere where you arent just completely changing the game. D mustve spent ages on their sets (not hunters block though ) making sure huge errors havent been overlooked where, in this instance, another culture cant completely break another cultures cards by abusing them, hence spotting requirements and exertions etc.. To be fair you mustve known this was coming from me, im such a traditionalist for this game i hate to see it changed too much and will always base my reviews with respect to Decipher's initial intentions. New mechanics and deck types are fine but radical overhauls like crossing cultures and messing with things D didnt, like removed from game pile will never sit easy with me. Doing this sort of card requires no thought to the impact on the game, its such a huge magic bullet for making a million new decks without thought to consequences. Hmmm thats sound like Ian Malcolm's speech from Jurassic Park. "You got so carried away in doing something, that you never stopped to think whether you should." Haha im so prophetic!

• Orthanc Beserker (V)
Minion • Uruk-hai
Str: 11
Vit: 3
Sit: 5
Damage +1.
Orthanc Beserker is strength +1 for each wound on each character in his skirmish.
Each time a companion is played, you may spot an card and reveal Orthanc Beserker from your hand to exert that companion.
3 V 66

Sound.

Uruk Raider (V)
Minion • Uruk-hai
Str: 7
Vit: 1
Sit: 5
. Damage +1.
Each time an Uruk-hai wins a skirmish, you may reveal this minion from your hand and remove to heal an Uruk-hai or exert a companion.
3 V 74

Nice. I think Remove 1 to heal an uruk hai ( or 2 to exert a comp) would be ok.

Uruk Ravager (V)
Minion • Uruk-hai
Str: 11
Vit: 3
Sit: 5
. Damage +1.
Regroup: Exert or discard this minion to return an Uruk-hai to your hand.
"'… a ruined and terrible form of life.'"
3 V 75

Meh, pretty staple ok guy.

You cant put a culture symbol in the gametext it just doesnt work.

[Anvar]

You also know that I disagree with Lem0n and think that if a TCG is going to stay interesting it has to change - that's what a TCG is about. Cards should make you think about how you would build your decks differently. There should be cards that revolutionise the possibilities of deck building to some degree or another - it's these moments that are really fun IMHO.

For example, Alternate Ring-Bearers. A really great addition to the game, that shook everything up about deckbuilding.

If there was going to be virtual cards in this game, like Star Wars had, as officially playable cards, then cross-culture cards would be necessary due to the switch in cultures that came about in Shadows. Without cross-culture, all the decks that are based on shadows cultures get no new cards in any virtual set.

At present, a culture symbol in game text would be meaningless, but Thranduil explained that it would be a feature of his cards, allowing them to be compatible with shadows cultures and their original cultures. I think it's a great idea and loved the cards.

Looks like we may have to agree to disagree again ;-)